It will be corporations or other providers of utility who are most likely to introduce a currency that would be used by the vast majority of people

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June 20, 2014, 03:04:02 AM
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The reason URO is probably better than bitcoin is you can’t hide the location of a fertilizer plant or storage warehouse like you can obfuscate the owner of a bitcoin wallet, so there’s an incentive to play fair, at least until the feedstock for your fertilizer plant runs out. (seehttp://petrodollar.org/ ) The problem here is that in the US, a couple of big fertilizer plants are owned by the Koch brothers, and they are experts at manipulating markets and buying public opinion, and also obfuscate how much oil and natural gas is actually economically recoverable.

Long story short, URO will be better than Bitcoin until the gas runs out. Then it collapses to zero overnight.

Meanwhile, I can always plant more http://blockscan.com/assetInfo.aspx?q=SOYBEANS and sell vegan soybean meal nitrogen fertilizer.

okay Harry Reid  Roll Eyes

Okay invoking the Koch brothers was a stupid argument. I have to have at least 3 stupid ideas before anything makes sense. But don’t you think that URO/Petrodollars/SOYBEANS would be a very interesting set of trading pairs on a distributed exchange?

Yes it would be very interesting. I just have very serious doubts this URO is legit. Somebody should try cashing in a Uro for a ton of Urea..I don’t think you’re going to get a ton of Urea for 50 cents. I’d love to be wrong, but my money says this is another pump and dump scam and I’m staying away.

I will call this bluff. Who’s willing to sell me 12,500 Uro for SOYBEANS? I will have physical soybeans for delivery in a few months, and for 50 cents a ton, I can find some farmers to charter a ship, or just cut some existing fertilizer company in for half the load.

12,500 Uro isn’t 50 cents a ton  Huh Sell me one ton of Soybeans for one Uro, or one ton of Urea for one Uro

I need 12,500 Uro per the contract specifications to trade it for a shipload of Urea. If Uro is $0.50 each, that is in theory 50 cents/ton of Urea. But only if there’s really a backer, so I’m taking a big risk cause it’s going cost at least $50,000 USD in legal fees, insurance and whatever else to charter a ship to call that bluff.

However, if you can deliver 20 tons (20,000kg) of Urea in a dry-bulk-bags to the Manly Terminal in a shipping container, I’ll send the container back with 10 tons of soybeans (10,000kg), based on the roughly 2 to 1 price ratio of Urea to soybeans

Do you have any idea how much press and attention we’d get in the worldwide commodities market if we actually executed this transaction instead of bullshitting about it on cryptocointalk? Go issue ‘UREA’ on counterparty with contract deliverable specifications for 1 ton of Urea in bulk bags (or 20tons in a container), and back it with URO, and then we can start trading fertilizer instead of BS. If you’ve got any ideas how to handle basis I’d love to hear them.

That is exactly the kind of stunt this needs. True-asset will need to pull off some expensive marketing strategies to make this happen. As soon as someone who lives near one of the NIER members calls his bluff it will be a very very expensive ordeal for the URO foundation if the price continues to stagnate. 

There is an interesting article on Coindesk today. http://www.coindesk.com/british-mp-bitcoin-may-zx-spectrum-digital-currencies/

“It will be corporations or other providers of utility who are most likely to introduce a currency that would be used by the vast majority of people, he indicated. This would be driven in part by digital currencies like bitcoin, but also because of high inflation rates and a “doomed” post-Bretton Woods system.

“The intriguing question that will determine the shape of the world is ensuring that every country has access to a multiplicity of reserves […] whether it’s bitcoin, O2 credit, Tesco credit. I suspect [the dominant currency of the future] will be backed by a large company that provides something of utility. A mobile phone company, or a supermarket chain,” he said.”

 

Uro can be used by farmers without understanding how cryptocurrency works

true-asset

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Uro: Backed by Millions of Tons of Urea Fertilizer

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Today at 01:28:21 AM
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well its a big task to achieve, especially educating the not so literate farmers in India- M sure their children can better understand it. 

Would be great if those farmers could mine the URO Smiley

It all sounds very complicated, I hope the devs know what they are doing and how they can achieve it.

So once a farmer buys Urea with his URO from a retailer or wholesaler- then those pay URO to buy it from manufacturers. 

Now in Fiat world- farmer pays amount x to retailer- retailer pays x-y(his profits) to wholesaler- wholesaler pays x-y-z(his profits to the manufacturers. And thats how they all make money and run their businesses. 

So how does it work with URO- 1 URO = 1 MT urea. How would the process work, where would they make their profits. and what happens to all the URO which end up with the manufacturers- they sell it back to farmers or exchanges ( sounds complicated)

May be my thought process is totally wrong. But the concept is intersting and I am doing my part to the URO revolution by buying up as much as i can.

And when it all starts- i would happily donate some URO to some needy farmers in India Smiley

Cheers

The key to understanding Uro in the context of agriculture is that Uro IS Urea, just “delivered in the future” (Uro coins are divisible Urea futures contracts without tedious paperwork – with the blockchain being the means to eliminate this paperwork).

Now let Uro == “Urea delivered in the future” == “Urea Certificates (UC)” (simplified adaptation of Uro paper wallets for farmers/people who don’t want or need to know about futures or Uro as a cryptocurrency).

UCs provide farmers confidence in the sustainability of their operations by hedging away the risk that they may not be able to afford fertilizer next season if the fertilizer prices go up too much – In the longer term – farmers will learn to buy their UCs when the price is low (they cannot do this without Uro because Urea has a short shelf life and the lack of storage space) – this behaviour will force the price higher – hence forming a free market supply/demand stabilisation of Urea prices – which in term reduces the magnitude of fluctuations in the Urea price for the entire economy – even those not adopting Uro.

Wholesalers make their margin by simply selling UCs at a price higher then they paid for Uro. This is no different to before – when they brought the Urea at a lower distributors price and sold it at a higher wholesale price.

In the case where the farmer goes on an exchange and buys Uro themselves directly on the open currency exchanges (unlikely due to various difficulties – learning curve, internet, access to computers, electronic bank account access, etc) – they will have effectively saved the above margin that would have been earned by the wholesaler. But since very few farmers will end up doing this the loss in revenue to wholesalers will be minimal.

Finally wholesalers have access to Urea at lower prices when they sign yearly supply contracts with international trading companies (very common) – and this can still be achieved with Uro just as before. Uro and Urea can be both be supplied in larger quantities below the current market price to wholesalers – and they continue making their margins for providing a valuable service – inventory, accounting and customer support.

 
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Paper wallets eliminate learning curve & counterfeits for farmers adopting Uro for Urea supply management

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Today at 04:41:43 PM
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Just a thought would it not benefit the farmers to have the ability to purchase a prepaid URO card, to use as A. Currency B. acting hedge trader. This negates the necessity for a computer, and direct transfer from individuals in any local could take place without a middle man. Effectivly rendering any farmer a potential trader in URO. Granted they can hold on to the urea, or URO card directly. These cards could also be in smaller URO denominations. They would be sold and handled like phone minute cards, I’ve been to many rural places in 3rd world countries, phone cards are as prolific as soda these days.

If the local distributor had the ability to accept say .5 of a URO and the farmer still had .5 left on his card, he could chose to hold or sell at will. Price fluctuations will always be inherent in commodities due to supply and demand.

Paper wallets and brain wallets are definitely part of the plan involving the wholesalers for the next stage. We have not thought about cards but thanks for contributing this. Wholesalers will be trained to use Uro electronically while less frequent users can make do with paper wallets. If the Foundation donates Urea it would be in the form of Uro paper wallets, and Uro will be purchasable from Urea wholesalers.

For many farmers – understanding markets trends, cryptocurrency, finance, etc is a big problem indeed. However, if we just introduce a paper wallet which they can buy and hold as a certificate for Urea – then that is something everyone will understand. The best thing is that these certificates can be verified against counterfeiting due to the inherent power of the cryptocurrency network. 

“The best thing is that these certificates can be verified against counterfeiting due to the inherent power of the cryptocurrency network. ” Absolutely, the blockchain is such an elegant solution. At some point they will need to be scanned electronically though correct? An extra layer of i.d verification would lock it all in.

Yes the paper wallets would have a verify QR code, signature and address, which trained wholesalers would check with up coming software we are developing. At this point, ID verification does not appear necessary and would add curb adoption just as it has done for Bitcoin (to buy BTC with fiat at the moment you usually have submit documents and wait days for them to be approved by the exchange, and many choose to just forgo the experiment because of this hassle).

 
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The Uro Protocol is in force on 09 July 2014, not “some time in the next 10 years”

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Today at 03:35:03 PM
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So if I buy 12,500 Uro today on July 9th can I email the NIER with an order for 12,500 Tonnes Urea and they will accept, or are they only obligated to do so at some point in the next 10 years?  And who can sue the NIER if they don’t honor the contract, The URO Foundation i.e. themselves?

The ratifying companies are obliged to supply Urea for Uro starting from 09 July 2014. If they do not, the purchaser can take legal action against the company – since they are breaking the terms of a legally binding agreement.

The Protocol states that the companies must allow payment of Uro for Urea purchases for at least 10 years. A few people have tried to interpret the 12,500 metric tonne minimum order requirement (which is for the purpose of making sure the vessel is full) to be some sort of maximum order limit – but there is no mention of such a limit in the Protocol and such interpretations are incorrect.

 
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Uro improves on inefficient Urea subsidies that get absorbed by the middlemen

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Today at 08:30:53 PM
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How does URO fit in with the government subsidization of urea in India?:”Urea is imported by three STEs (state trading enterprises) – Indian Potash Ltd (IPL), MMTC and STC on behalf of the government to meet domestic shortfall. The country produces about 22 MT against an annual domestic demand of 33 MT.”

“Urea is provided to farmers at a fixed subsidized maximum retail price (MRP) of Rs 5,360 per tonne. The difference between the cost of production and MRP of urea is provided as subsidy.”

5,360.00 INR   =   90.4319 USD

Are there farmers in Rajasthan buying subsidized Urea for 3 times the price?

A typical small to medium farmer without the right connections cannot access Urea at this subsidised price. To receive this subsidy they must go through a lot of bureaucracy and significant corruption occurs at this level. Although it is displayed at this price almost no one can actually make a real purchase of Urea for 5360 INR – most pay more then 3 times this amount.

In other words, this subsidy/discount gets absorbed by the middle elements of the supply chain – such as the agents.

This kind of fake “subsidy” is “available” in many developing nations.

I have to agree with this . Such issues are discussed in Indian news channels regularly.The rampant corruption in the system is one of the main causes of many farmers committing suicide. If farmers start using URO  they are entitled to equivalent metric tonne of Urea and need not worry about the prices and the manipulation in the system. This could be revolutionary if implemented correctly. 

Also http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Government-plans-urea-price-hike-to-curb-fertilizer-subsidies/articleshow/36294375.cms   

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110822/main2.htm

Understanding that Uro’s utility is not affected by traders on exchanges

true-asset

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Today at 12:14:40 AM
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The point is not to know if OP can be a horse behind a computer or not.I want to understand the idea behind the project.
I don’t see how the project is helping the farmers using urea.
Cryptocurency lead to massive pump and dump. How can we expect people to rely on it ?
What if millions of people lose all their wealth and are forced to starvation because of a dump from a nerd with a massive GPU farm ?
This is a caricature but do someone see the point ?

Uro’s utility to a farmer is not affected by the behaviour of traders on the exchanges: A farmer that holds Uro will get his/her Urea when he/she needs it – without having to worry about Urea or Uro price changes – because the Uro Protocol legally binds the NIERs to this commitment for the next ten years – with more NIERs joining the Foundation in the coming months. This commitment is just the beginning – because it currently only caters for whole ship orders of 12,500 MT – we are in ground-breaking discussions with Urea wholesalers right now to facilitate smaller orders. We invision that one day, 1 MT Urea purchases will be possible with Uro.

All of this is possible because of the Uro Protocol backing Uro to 1 MT of Urea. Its unique, its different – its not a backing to USD, its not a backing to any fiat currency or even any cryptocurrency. Uro is a different animal all together – a currency backed to a manufactured commodity – a commodity that is crucial to the upkeeping of civilization.

All that have ever been released upon this community in the past has been concentrated on getting a high BTC exchange rate, but BTC itself is volatile – and so is any other currency including fiat. Uro is the fresh approach – a backing to the real needs of the human race – the need to grow food.

Think about this – if a war breaks out and your life is in danger – what is a bank note? what is even a gold bar? The only thing that matters is safety and sustenance. Food and whatever is required to produce it are the only constants – the only things that are universally valued in the same way by every  person on earth – if fact – they are the only things universally valued by all life everywhere. It does not matter if its a plant, an animal, a human or an alien – all have to eat.

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Value can be placed on Urea because it does have value for everybody

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Today at 12:16:11 PM
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This is all very utopian and idealistic, but fundamentally in the real world in which we live right now, how are the producers going to get paid in order to even break even or profit from the sales of urea? It’s not like they can pay their utility bills with URO.

Wow… why do people that do not have a clue about how commodity- and stockmarkets work, trade cryptocurrencies…

Ok I shall change my education and career for this. Crypto is a hobby and interest for me, nothing more. I’d be interested if rather than putting me down you could explain it, otherwise I will attempt to educate myself.

In my narrow, limited world view, I just don’t understand how you can place a value on something that noone else can use as a unit of value?

Value can be place on Urea because it does have value for everybody – its what is growing half the food on the planet.

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The farmers need Uro to buy their Urea

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Today at 06:48:48 AM
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This is all very utopian and idealistic, but fundamentally in the real world in which we live right now, how are the producers going to get paid in order to even break even or profit from the sales of urea? It’s not like they can pay their utility bills with URO.

Basically I think it works like this. The farmers need Uro to buy their Urea. Before Urea ranged from 200-600 dollars a MT. They buy Uro from miners and trade it for goods. So in theory the price of Uro will go up leading up to July 9th when this is supposed to take effect. Then these companies sell back the Uro’s to other farmers/miners/investors and it just goes in circulation like that. Thats my simple explanation. So right now the people dumping at the current price in theory would be missing out. The way I see it is the price will steady climb the rest of this month up to a certain value maybe not the current price of Urea but to a certain value. Then once people see that this is or isnt a scam the price will shoot up to that value if its legit.(then the Urea producers sell and get their money) I dont see miners selling something for dirt cheap when it has a value to someone else thats alot higher. Of course this is speculation but as is all crypto is speculation. Bitcoin is valued at 660ish currently but tomorrow it could dive to 400 or climb up to 1000. However if this is legit and their is an actual commodity backing the coin then it will have an almost definitive value.

 

Why has the NIERs not bought up all the Uro on the market

From: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600639.msg7242744#msg7242744

The question “Why has the NIERs not bought up all the Uro on the market?” has been asked many times. We are pleased to be able to publish an answer now.

There are so many reasons why the members of the Foundation has not chosen to go down this path, and here are just a few:

  1. Sustainability: The need for the Uro community to prove itself as a long term, sustainable crowd business model: The Foundation wants to see Uro grow organically on its own, with its own proud tradition. Uro needs to be convincing to the general public as represented by the community here. Uro needs to stand alone on its own principles and economic foundations. A few companies buying up all the currency supply does nothing to achieve this.
  2. Ethics: it is just plain wrong for the Foundation members to manipulate the market by hoarding all the Uro supply. In the share market – this would be considered some form of insider trading and definitely breaks a number of laws. Just because the cryptocurrency space is unregulated by the government doesn’t mean that we should not hold ourselves to high moral and ethical standards. Having a few parties with a majority stake in the currency supply simply breeds opportunities for market manipulation that benefits almost no one.
  3. Market creation and growth via “Earned Distribution”: to have a market – you need mass participation. What is the point of Uro if – when it reaches its proper value – that only a few hold it? There will be no point to such a currency – currency is something that is useful for exchange between people – especially strangers. The bigger the market the better – and we believe that the best way to create a large market is through what we call “Earned Distribution”: everyone that is holding Uro have earned them – by mining to keep the network operating, by contributing to the community via posting new information to strengthen its value, by buying some Uro. This is the free market at its best – mass participation with no freeloaders.
  4. Policies in Philanthropy: For the NIERs – Uro is not a sale, Uro is not something that fits the metrics of what that the Urea trading firms will pay for as an expense or an investment. for the NIERs – the best category for Uro to fit in is as part of the philanthropic and R&D activities these companies get involved in. Over the years – the NIERs have learned that handing out cash usually ends up with corrupt officials and middlemen absorbing the majority of the donations or funding – so the NIERs now have a policy: No cash handouts. This policy is the result of tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars in hard lessons learned from past charitable and R&D activities. The NIERs are fine with providing millions of tonnes of Urea knowing that it will go towards planting something that will help feed people in need, but not okay with providing funds so that Uro can be temporarily and artificially inflated in value on a currency exchange just so that a few early adopters can cash out.

Taking a risk for long term goals

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June 10, 2014, 09:35:49 PM
Reply with quote  #590

Its always the same with coin trading. I invest in coins with longterm goals, not shortterm technology.

Uro has a longterm goal, thats attractive as there will remain to be a reason to invest in it.

My potential loss would be 100%, my potential gains is far bigger than 100%, especially with a current market cap of just 28k…

I’m taking the risk.

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